The other extreme is what most Christian churches do today, where Bible truths have been so diluted that there is almost no difference in stance between the the world and the church on morality, values, etc. Except for the name, most of today’s churches are very much a reflection/representation of the world.

In principle, it is not wrong to strive to stick to what the Word of God says, than to try to please the world by teaching what people want to hear and is convenient to liberalism. They would rather easily accept and promote circular, pagan traditions than the other way round (history points to this kind corruption in the traditional mainline churches).

The church we have today is in many respects very different to the first century Apostolic church w.r.t. doctrine and pratice. This change also came through corrupt church leaders, who still pursue the cause to this day.

So, either of the extremes is wrong. We should rather be focusing on what God expects of us, as stated in the Bible, than what is convenient for us as individuals or politicians.

I am just astonished…thinking what made God ie Jesus Christ tell these(the below 3 verses from 3 Gospels)….that too 3 times…don’t worry I am a catholic….actually IF God did not have plans to continue with His Sabbath……then i believe that He would have said us SPECIFICALLY through His Holy Spirit(ie in the Bible through the Apostles)…..

Christ says that He is the Lord even of the Sabbath….oh no!!!…..I am afraid….

Matt:12:8: For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mark:2:27: And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and
not man for the sabbath:
Mark:2:28: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luke:6:5: And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

(around) 70 years after Christ’s resurrection…John speaks in revelation….He too speaks about the Lord’s day…..which according to Jesus our Lord is the Sabbath….

Revelation:1:10: I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a
great voice, as of a trumpet,

And today I heard this scripture read in my Church….

M’t:15:4: For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
M’t:15:5: But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
M’t:15:6: And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
M’t:15:7: Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
M’t:15:8: This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
M’t:15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I became really convicted within….because are WE not transgressing the Commandments of God with OUR man-made tradition???actually He was speaking of the Biblical 5th commandment…moreover God has spoken the commandments in the ORDER OF IMPORTANCE right????……for example…if we put the 1st commandment the 8th and the 8th commandment the 1st…what will it look like…??

My catholic priest says that the Word of God is LIVING…and also John the apostle says that the “Word became flesh and dwelt among us”…..

Could this be like Jesus Christ is directly speaking to us???…through His Word??

I must do more research….because I have just begun my research….in the begining itself i wonder!!!….oh no…….I have got to read the old testament too…but I read the commandments before…

Don’t worry brother…I am a catholic…but I got to learn a lot…
bye

Thanks brother for reading patiently,
Yours friendly,
Truth Seeker

Actually, three: Its beliefs, its structure and its example.

There is a lot about what Greg Albrecht preaches that is true. If you or someone else (like myself) slam him as a dangerous cult leader teaching lies, your wife will tune out. I suggest you emphasize the common ground first and then gently point out areas where PTM differs from the Bible or from mainstream Christianity. Perhaps your wife would be willing to also listen to a good non-combative preacher who holds to a more traditional interpretation of the Bible.

The problem with all these groups is they still cling to the misguided view that God cares more about doctrine than about people. It simply seems to escape their minds that one can disagree with interpretations of scripture and still respect other human beings as equals in God’s sight.

Despite a professed belief that the body of Christ is the people of the Church, these men have never known participatory democracy and don’t practice it. The body of Christ may be Jesus, but He doesn’t get to vote.

They openly profess a love for the “historical faith” yet not so privately call The Roman Catholic church “a cult”. They tend to fall back into their old ways of using very clever and intimidating arguments to enforce their particular brand of orthodoxy. To them doctine is everything. Not having any firm convictions of their own, they turned to the likes of Hank Hanegraaf to define for them a new orthodoxy and to remove their cultic stink gland.

The WCG reformation has to be first reformation in history where their doctrinal premise came after the revolution. The reformers who had real convictions were fired or driven off by insiders.

For all their new found enthusiasm for the New Covenant, they tightly embraced tithing scriptures meant for Old Covenant Temple maintenance. American evangelicals were the only “market” in American tithe paying religion that was expanding. Its easy to understand the confusion of conservatives and why they formed their own organizations.

While they professed for years to follow truth where it led them, they in fact sought to mine the fertile grounds of mainstream evangelicals for new members to replace a demographically doomed older system of belief. PTM and the WCG are more about “market share” and ratings than conscience.

I do not know if Greg has “expanded” his views, but I tend to doubt his sermons are anymore enlightened than his famous penchant for quoting Janice Joplin.

They’d all quite gladly sacrifice friends and family (more likely yours than theirs) in the name of their professed beliefs. They are among the most closed minded individuals on earth, and they insist on perpetuating organization structures with tight cult like hierarchial control.

I was a member of the WCG for 37 years. There were two things wrong with the WCG, its beliefs, and its structure. Only half of that equation has been addressed and even then half heartedly.

The only positive trend I can see in PTM is a decidedly LESS apocalyptic view on the world. But one can’t help by wonder if nuts like John Hagee didn’t pick up the Apocalyptic mind virus from Herbert W Armstrong. Millions werer spent propagating that message over 50 years. Just like his son Garner Ted did much to start the pseudo-religious meme of environmental doom. The Armstrongs knew how to market ideas!

PTM and the WCG are Chesire cats. There’s nothing “real” about them. Most of us still hope they simply fade away.

During this time, my wife found the PTM website and has bought into their program hook, line and sinker. I realize that she was very vulnerable at the time and their message went right to her heart.

I am having trouble with some of their teachings, but can’t put my finger on what it is that is troubling me. I do feel that Albrecht is using his “church without walls” to keep people from looking elsewhere, thus questioning his teachings. It seems that he casts doubt on any other point of view before it is even expressed. When he is questioned, he just points back to his earlier comments and says “see, I told you so”.

Can anyone help me out with more solid information I can use to try to reason with my wife. She has a tendency to go to extremes in her beliefs. She generaly is very critical of anyone who doesn’t see things her way, and goes to great lengths to discredit their beliefs.

These guys continue to look to “new markets” as a way to justify their employment.

Unfortunately the evangelical community embraced the “reformed” WCG without demanding it change its abuse hierarchial structure. Its the structure of the organization that enables it to so effectively abuse funds and people without any accountability.

Shame on Christianity for thinking a cult consisted only of “incorrect” doctrines, and shame on Hank Hanegraaf for giving his seal of approval to a group of men with no observable conscience.

The WCG with a congregational structure would have simply been Seventh Day Adventist. The two are theological cousins.

Religion is all about control. Its unlikely Greg, or Joe Jr is going to give up any control of their organizations.

Can a leopard change its spots? Some of us would settle for just a little peer-reviewed defanging.

I need to make tassels for the corners of my clothes, bind scriptures to my hands and forehead, construct a parapet for my roof, throw out my wrinkle-free shirts, make considerable changes to my diet, and much more!

I hope I have enough vacation time to take off for all the festivals and holy days. I wonder whom I’ll celebrate with? Do you know any other Christians who have ignored the clear teaching of the New Testament?